I like yarns with more plies Fine2-ply and singles can knit into a nice fabric, when they are knit on fine needles. And very fine 2-ply knit on very fine needles produce a wonderful fabric.
I certainly knit a great deal worsted weight 2-ply yarns, into fabrics that I thought were nice at the time. I knit a lot of Lopi. I did these things because there was a class of knitters with experience in knitting such things that told me it was a good thing to do. It was. It let me learn from my experience, and learning is a good thing.
Lopi has a lot of fans. Garments knit from Lopi have a particular aesthetic. Lopi yarn is easily and inexpensively produced. (e.g., less effort is put into combing, and less energy is put into twist). And, objects can be very rapidly knit from Lopi. However, the resulting fabrics are heavy for their warmth. That is, a gansey weighing less than 2 pounds will be much warmer than a Lopi sweater weighing more than 5 pounds. And the gansey can be tailored to flatter the figure, while the Lopi simply hides the figure giving the appearance of bulk. That is good, if you want to look big and bulky. On the other hand, my favorite aunt wore pink Lopi socks almost continuously (day and night) for the last 12 years of her life - all knit by yours truly. The other thing about Lope is that it is not as durable as some other fabric constructions. For example a Lopi sweater will not last as long as a gansey knit from 5-ply. And, an Aran sweater knit from 2-ply will last longer than a Lopi sweater of the same weight and warmth. However, an Aran sweater knit from the same weight of wool spun into real 10-ply, will be much warmer, and last much longer. And the 10-ply (or 10-strand cabled) yarn can provide an elasticity that is simply astonishing. It can be weatherproof, without being stiff.
I knit a lot camping, hiking,sailing and ski gear for myself and friends from 2 and 3-ply yarns, mostly MacAusland. When I started knitting, my ski buddies, all told me that hand knit woolens were just worthless in the cold (i.e., snow camping) . I convinced them that hand knit woolens could be warm by giving them hand knit objects knit from 2-ply that were very warm and durable. I know 2-ply can be knit into good fabrics. I have no regrets knitting all that 2-ply - the objects were better than what I could get commercially. However, I do wish that I had discovered the virtues of more plies, sooner. (I still have many pounds of MacAusland, and I still knit it.) However, the objects that I knit today from yarms with more plies are better. The objects knit from yarns with more plies are warmer and more durable.
My point is that yarns with more plies can be knit into better fabrics. And as spinners, we can make better yarns. It takes some effort, but we can make lighter weight yarns that are just as warm as heavier weight yarns, and which are much more durable. And, they have better drape. As hand spinners we are not so concerned with the cost of inserting more twist. Our hand spun does not have a price point. We can afford to make better yarns.
Alternatively, rather fine (2,500 ypp) 2-ply ply yarns can be knit on rather fine needles (1.4 mm) to produce wonderful fabrics. Everytime I make this fabric, I am just amazed by it. The yarn is easy to spin. and it is only 30% more stitches per inch then gansey fabric so it is not that many more stitches, I knit the fabric soft, so it is not as much effort, and minimum stress on the hands. It can be easily produced with either a knitting belt or a knitting sheath, I also make a 6-strand cabled yarn at ~1,600 ypp that I knit on 1.7 mm needles to produce a soft, warm, durable fabric. It is a little thicker, warmer and more elastic fabric.
I am not talking about the weatherproof, industrial fabrics that I knit for sailing gear. I am talking about soft fabrics that will remain beautiful for many wearings.
Now, I am sure that there are a lot of (experienced) knitters that will think that my views on more plies is silly. That is OK, those are the same knitters that did not tell me that the easy way to get a weatherproof knit fabric is to use finer knitting pins. I put in a lot of effort and wasted a lot of time working this out for myself. They could have said, "Oh, it is easy, just use finer needles". However, they did not.
At this point in my knitting career, my rule of thumb is that more plies in the yarn and finer needles produce fabrics that I tend to like better.
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11 comments:
That is an excellent post and explains so much about the different weights and methods of spinning and knitting we can produce ourselves.
You do realize, don't you, that there was and is no conspiracy to keep you from learning things, right? I seriously doubt all the people you keep saying didn't tell you things were all whispering to each other "Oh no, don't tell Aaron that!" I'm sorry that no one held your hand and guided you through baby steps of learning to knit and spin, but expecting that to have happened in the first place is sad. There is the consideration, as well, that everyone has their own way of doing things, so maybe they didn't tell you one way of doing something because that way didn't work for them, so they used other techniques.
Additionally, why the bloody hell didn't you research things on your own instead of blindly following what you say everyone was telling you? You are trying to tell everyone else that your way is the only way, and yet, since the majority of us are intelligent creatures, we would be blind fools if we did not search out knowledge on our own and decide what worked for us as individuals.
If you have found ways of working that please you, great. Good on you. However, acting like you were being deliberately repressed all these years is plain silly.
You do realize, don't you, that there was and is no conspiracy to keep you from learning things, right? I seriously doubt all the people you keep saying didn't tell you things were all whispering to each other "Oh no, don't tell Aaron that!" I'm sorry that no one held your hand and guided you through baby steps of learning to knit and spin, but expecting that to have happened in the first place is sad. There is the consideration, as well, that everyone has their own way of doing things, so maybe they didn't tell you one way of doing something because that way didn't work for them, so they used other techniques.
Additionally, why the bloody hell didn't you research things on your own instead of blindly following what you say everyone was telling you? You are trying to tell everyone else that your way is the only way, and yet, since the majority of us are intelligent creatures, we would be blind fools if we did not search out knowledge on our own and decide what worked for us as individuals.
If you have found ways of working that please you, great. Good on you. However, acting like you were being deliberately repressed all these years is plain silly.
Aaron,
I am happy that you are producing yarns and fabrics that you like. I do, however, have a few questions.
1. What exactly do you mean by 'a gansey weighing less than 2 lbs will be warmer than a lopi weighing more than 5 lbs? I have a lopapeysa of my own and have seen several others, and I cannot imagine one weighing more than five pounds. I did a quick bit of research on Ravelry and the heaviest example that I could find, worn by a tall man, still weighed less than 1200 grams. (well below four pounds).
Knowing firsthand, as I do, how warm a lopapeysa is, I simply cannot understand how a garment 'twice as warm' could possibly be practical for almost anyone, no matter how light. Lopi is already so warm that many people find it uncomfortable to wear. I have enjoyed my own a great deal, but then, I do live in a region with an average low temperature of -20F. I personally found my Lopi sweater ideal for my grad student apartment with the thermostat set at 55F, but all but unwearable in heated classrooms. A garment twice as warm would be in the down parka category- certainly unsuitable for indoor wear, and unpleasantly warm even outdoors in all but the most extreme cold weather.
I will also note that with frequent use, my lopapeysa has lasted 25+ years now, and remains in excellent condition. I am having difficulty imagining how I might benefit from the increased durability of five-ply yarn, especially considering the drastic increase in the cost (or bother, if you persist in maintaining that the time and work of hand spinners has no monetary value) of production of such yarn.
2. Why do you equate greater warmth with greater desirability in yarn?
For many knitters, the goal is just the opposite- they are trying to craft garments that are practical for their lives, and that often means knitting for indoor use. For me personally, my current project is a linen cardigan for my wife. The purpose of such a garment is to provide a light layer to ward off the chill of air conditioning or summer evenings and to offer some protection from the sun. I do not want my fabric to be warmer. I want it to be as airy and cool as possible.
Even in cooler seasons, I very seldom wish to produce a garment that would be warm, by your standards. I just don't need them, and I do need garments that are comfortable at warmer temperatures. I also do not suffer from lack of durability in my knitting- my socks last for years, and I've never worn out a sweater, despite owning many that are 20+ years old.
Given that these are my requirements, why should I, or anyone like me, go to the trouble of handspinning multi-ply yarns?
I am happy that you are producing fabrics that you like- but I don't understand why you should feel that these fabrics are objectively better than those produced by others- surely you can see that your judgement is personal and subjective?
If your sock last for years, then you do not do much walking - Do you? Show me a sock that has endured 700 miles of hiking, and I will show you a sock that is threadbare in places.
If your sweaters last for years, then, you not wear them much, do you? Or rather you wear them while sitting like a mannikin. Try wearing them while you prune the orchard (and the roses) or sail the "slot" or sit outside in the snow, knitting. Wear them camping and instead of a wet suit for water sports. If you were a grad student in forestry or glaciology, you would find such sweaters very practical for field work. Or, you could join your local volunteer fire department and wear them while you do cold weather rescues. Or, you could take up winter sports such as ice climbing and back country skiing.
Well knit wool can be warmer than a down parka in wet weather. However, down will always be lighter in weight for the warmth in dry cold. On the other hand, a few sparks from a fire will destroy a down object, but not damage a knit wool object. If I am camping with a fire, I much prefer wool garments.
If you get the gansey sweater construction right, it will vent when you get warm and will be very wearable in a 55F environment.
Good yarn has many properties. I have been cold, so I appreciate it's warmth.
I do not write for folks that want sit in front of a computer. I write for folks that might want to go out and do something, regardless of the fact that it is cold and wet outside. If one can stay warm, then one can have a lot of fun when it is cold and wet outside.
A lot of folks are afraid to go out side because they might get cold and wet. The truth is that the right hand knit sweater can turn a day of watching elephant seals from a day of cold, wet misery into a very pleasant picnic on the beach. It is just a matter of being dressed for the conditions.
The bottom line is that because I work faster, the yarn for 5-ply sweater costs me less total time, than than most spinners invest in the yarn for a 2-ply sweater. If I need a less warm garment, I spin thinner yarn.
A while back there were patterns for Lopi ski sweaters that contained huge amounts of wool. A Lopi sweater weighting 1.2kg is suited for wearing in centrally heated space. Try designing a Lopi sweater for snow camping and see how much THAT weighs. People like you do not go snow camping because they are afraid of the wet and cold. They are afraid of sweaters that weight 2.5 kg. They cannot dream that well knit wool, will keep them warm, dry, and comfortable.
I do not mind when people admit ignorance.
I hate it when people say, "I am an expert, and this is the answer" when in fact, they are wrong.
In the beginning, an experienced reenactor told me she was an expert and that knitting sheaths were never needed or extensively used. Now, she prides herself on writing extensively about knitting sheaths - but has never actually learned to use one.
One of the expert spinners told me that my Traddy was as fast as such a wheel could be and no spinner ever needed a faster wheel. She said what I needed was to become a "better" spinner.
Today that wheel runs about 7 times faster.
No, the self-proclaimed "experts" in knitting and spinning actively told me things that were simply not correct.
I did go out and research stuff. I tried what the "experts" told me. I was not blind, I tried what the experts said first, and then I tried other things. All too often, the other things worked better than what the experts told me.
The expert, who consistently gets things correct is Alden Amos in his Big Book of Handspinning.
Consider, Judith's approach to DRS on pages 106- 107 of The Intentional Spinner. However, with DRS, fractions of a millimeter count, so you have to do the math, per Alden Amos. And looking at pg 76 comparing woolen and worsted spun yarns - no mention that woolen spun yarn need a quarter more twist to be competent. Alden on the other hand addresses this issue on pg 383. The truth of the matter is that the difference in twist is the difference between spinning for 6 hours and needing to spin for 8 hours when all is done. (e.g., the longer race means you much run slower.)
Aaron, despite making some rather insulting (and quite incorrect) assumptions about my lifestyle, you seem to have avoided my main questions.
1. Are your ganseys actually twice as warm as a typical lopapeysa? How have you determined this?
2. Can you understand that a garment twice as warm as a lopapeysa would NOT be practical for most people?
3. Can you understand that your own preferences for yarn and fabric are personal and subjective and that other people have different priorities, goals, and standards?
4. Can you understand that fulfilling your personal and subjective criteria does NOT make the yarns and fabrics you prefer inherently or objectively 'superior' to the yarns and fabrics that have different characteristics?
5. I will further add a new request for information. If you maintain that your ganseys maintain warmth by blocking airflow, how do they 'vent' when a person becomes warm, but block airflow when a person is cold? In theory, a person should almost always be warmer than their surroundings when wearing a gansey and should thus always be losing warm air to the environment- not a quality conducive to extreme weather resistance.
If you are arguing that the warmth of a gansey is primarily due to direct insulation rather than by blocking airflow, then why would a dense, thin yarn be as warm as a fluffier, thicker yarn like Lopi?
A garment that truly blocks the flow of air generally does not 'vent' unless, like many synthetic parkas, it has a mechanical means to do so (vents that can be physically opened and closed).
Again we return to the first question- how do you know that your gansey is warmer than a Lopapeysa? Do you have any evidence at all, or just your subjective anecdata? Has this been tested by anyone besides yourself?
Now, on the other, quite rude assumptions that you have made, I will say this- I do indeed walk quite a bit by modern standards-1-2hrs, 3-5 miles, cross country, every day. While truly strenuous, rough-terrain hiking is fairly unusual and restricted to weekends, the dogs need to be walked and thus I do traverse rocky and wooded trails each and every day. And, as I said above, the local average low temperature is -20 F. We are also blessed with an inordinate amount of rain. I am well aware of the fun that can be had in the cold and wet. I just don't rely on sweaters to have it.
I also spend relatively little time sitting in front of the computer, or sitting in general, both by profession and preference. I spend most of my day on my feet.
I WILL freely admit that my sock wear patterns are a bit unusual, but aside from the two cardinal rules my wife taught me- 'always handwash' and 'never on carpet' I don't take any special care of my hand knit socks. Nor are they remarkable socks- mostly inexpensive commercial sock yarn with a bit of nylon in, knit at fairly loose sock gauge (US 1, or 1.5 for heavily patterned socks).
I seldom wear socks at all in the summer (about 3.5 mos per year) and I do own quite a large number of pairs (chicken and egg- when they don't wear out, they pile up, which slows the wear on each sock even further), but mostly I attribute my sock longevity to years of Tai Chi.
In greater seriousness- foot shape, toenail and heel shape and condition, gait, weight, and sweatiness all impact the wear on socks, and it seems I've lucked out there. I can take more credit for fit since I find the single greatest cause of poor wear in sock is poor fit, either of the sock or the shoes.
A hand knit sock that wears through in less than six months on my foot would have to be either very poorly made or very poorly fitted. I do wear through commercial socks, interestingly enough, but I confess to buying cheap ones since I seldom wear them, and reserving them for activities where they are more likely to be covered in mud and gravel.
Some people, though, just seem to rip through socks, no matter how high the quality or great the care taken. I suspect their shoes, most of the time, but it does seem to be an individual thing.
As for sweaters, I think that I speak for the majority when I say that I am not in the habit of abrading my torso against rough objects. I will get a bit of pilling in a pilly yarn and a bit of felting in the underarms in feltable yarns, but other than that, I expect my wool sweaters to last for many years without notable wear. Possibly because I DON'T make a habit of sitting at the computer or in other soft chairs for long periods- I thus avoid that chance for friction.
If you DO make a habit of abrading your torso against rough objects, well, I suppose it is not surprising that your sweaters wear poorly. You might want to think about wearing a material more appropriate for your activities.
One last note before I leave you to your own opinions. I gather from your comment that you believe that I either do not care for outdoor activities or do not appreciate the value of wool.
Neither is true. I have many woolen garments that I have indeed worn while gardening (I'll see your apple trees and raise you roses and blackberries) and tree cutting-Maples are the scourge of any roofline in my part of the world. I've worn them camping, I've worn them hiking, I've worn them as my sole garment of choice as I walked to and home from bars in the bitter winter back in my salad days. (Ok, that one was technically felted).
Most of my sweaters have seen more snow in the last decade than most places in the country get in a century.
I know the comfort and value of wool. I understand the importance of appropriate gear. What I DON'T understand is what possible advantage a 5-ply handspun, iron-dense gansey has over faster, cheaper, more comfortable garments. To me. If you like them, fantastic. All I am trying to get you to see is that your way isn't INHERENTLY better.
My wool sweaters are plenty warm enough for camping and too warm for all but the least strenuous hiking, most of the time. I feel no particular desire to sit or sleep in the snow, though my winter gear despite being centered around a coat that is NOT made of wool, is more than up to the challenge, and when I have occasion to sit I get neither cold nor wet(no sensible person ever sleeps in the snow in just a sweater unless the air temperature is well above freezing). Sensible precautions aside, every child who grows up in snowy parts of the world knows that you can spend hours and hours rolling in the snow without a gansey AND STILL not freeze.
My wife and I tell ourselves that the reason we don't tent camp any more is because our (very loud) dog has too much guardian instinct to spend a quiet night outdoors with bear and coyote nearby, but the fact is both of us are too old to really enjoy sleeping on the ground. As for a wet suit--well, it seems to me if I needed a wet suit, I'd far rather have an actual wet suit.
I am sorry Aaron, if I have upset or offended you with my comments. I came to this blog out of honest interest and curiosity, but I have become increasingly frustrated with your unscientific reasoning and unsubstantiated claims. Add to that a truly unfortunate attitude, and I am now afraid that I must leave you to it. Thank you for responding to my comments,
Stephen
5-ply allows a lighter garment to provide the same warmth. This has an advantage if one must be outside for an extended period of time and are extremely weight or space restricted.
There is not likely an advantage for wearing 5-ply when you are walking the dogs. However, if you are ice climbing or rock climbing or reefing sails, the advantage is significant.
It is not that I desire to sleep in the snow, it is that I want to sleep warm and comfortable and sometimes there happens to be snow around. If one is wearing a gansey, one can flop down and take a nap.
I do not intend to wear my gansey as a wetsuit - but sometimes one wants to go in the water when the wetsuit was left home. Not bit of water has a wet suit rental shop near by, and I do not take a wet suit on every back packing trip.
Nothing I knit is too warm for hiking at -20F.
There was no conspiracy to keep me from learning things, but there was a conspiracy to spread misinformation about spinning.
Now, 5 years in to spinning, I know what very , very few spinners know - I know how to spin productively.
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