Ravelry

At one point, my grandfather was a carpenter for the Union Pacific Railroad in Oklahoma. They built whole towns of  buildings using wood and nails. 

Now the quiz:

Which tool in the picture below is the correct tool for driving nails into wood?

Both the hammer and the pliers are applications of  levers

Of course it is the hammer!; because it provides the useful leverage for the job.  It allows professional grade nail driving. 

Which tool below it the correct tool for knitting "gansey" yarn into weatherproof objects?

Shown above are 3mm circular needles and 2 mm DPN with 

a good knitting sheath

The DPN with knitting sheath provides much more leverage putting much less stress on the hands and the circular needles are just too big. And, those big needles leave big needle holes in the fabric; you are never going to get to "weatherproof" leaving such big holes in the fabric.  Use 2mm circs, and there still is too much stress on the hands.

What tools are needed  for the knit objects that  GT calls "ganseys" knit from 2,700 ypp yarns at 12 spi and 20 rpi?

A good knitting sheath with 1.3 mm needles.  It makes a lovely soft, warm, durable fabric that I also use for gloves and socks,  as in this very well tested (worn) sock knit from 6-ply, 1680 ypp wool yarn, knit at 12 spi and 16 rpi:

This is actually a heavier yarn than the old  Patons Beehive,

 thus this is a denser fabric - more like the Dunraven.

You are not going to get there with circular needles!  I know, I tried very hard for years. and years.  My grandfather could not have built cities of wood by pounding in all of those nails with a pair of pliers (although he always carried a pair of pliers in his pocket.)  No, he used the right tool - he used a hammer to drive those nails home.  Likewise, to knit the kind of fabrics that I like, I have to use DPN and a knitting sheath.


Raverly's take on tools;

Some groups have been taken over by populist bullies (e.g., boss cows) that tell us that  3.25 mm needles will produce the same fabrics as 2.4 mm needles. (If we slice that salami, they imply that any fabric can be knit on any sized needle.) Then, they get agrees and loves on such nonsense. Some, or even most, groups on Ravelry have become a popularity contest among folks with limited technical skill, that negates Ravelry's ability to be a clearinghouse of useful textile knowledge and skills. There is more speculation from ignorance than knowledge from actual compartive testing of  tools, materials, and techniques.  People who say this technique is better, are considered to "discriminate" against the folks who use that technique.  

Some will call this "sour grapes" on my part.  Not at all.   I make my rounds of the textile crafts world, and see what suits my needs.  I adopt any tool or technique that is better than what I have.

One thing that I see is that the boss cows at Ravelry spend so much time protecting their turf, and keeping the herd in line  that they have no time to improve their spinning and knitting.

I see the folks who told me ten years ago that it was not possible to hand spin 5-ply -gansey yarn, still spin as they did 10 years ago.  It took me months and months to spin that first kilo of 5-ply gansey yarn.  Since then, I have learned skills and made tools that allow me to hand spin the worsted spun 5-ply yarn for a good gansey or Guernsey in about 12 hours. I did not learn those new skills on Ravelry.  What I heard on Ravelry, was "Cannot be done."

I do not care how experienced spinners spin!

 I do care about what options they offer to beginning spinners.  Beginning spinners need to know that there are ways to spin fast. Beginning spinners need to know that there are ways to spin fine, both woolen and worsted.

Many folks that disparage my knitting sheaths, still knit the way they did when I started using knitting sheaths.

I do not care how anybody knits.  

I do care when experienced knitters make an effort to hide or wrongly  depreciate other knitting techniques. Beginning knitters need to know that there are ways of knitting warmer objects.  Beginning knitters need to know that there are ways to knit more durable objects.

Current tools and skills allow me to knit fabrics that cannot be hand knit without a knitting sheath - not even with a leather knitting belt - which is a wonderfully powerful tool.  The power of a knitting sheath is infinite. It allows me to hand knit fabrics that cannot be reasonably knit with any other knitting technique.  It transforms the impossible into  the possible. Beginning knitters and spinners need to know what is possible, so they can choose their tools, and what skills to learn.

On Ravelry, advanced spinning and knitting techniques are hidden behind what is popular. 

Gansey Nation is proud to knit commercial 1,200 ypp, 5-ply "gansey yarn" on 2.25 mm circular needles at 9 spi and 11 rpi, (99 stitches per inch^2) working half an hour per day 
 ( see http://www.ganseys.com/knitting-ganseys/preparation/stitch-gauges-and-sizing/ ). He does not think that ganseys can be knit "weatherproof''.    This is  the conventional wisdom among folks that never learned to use a knitting sheath, and which specifically includes Bishop Rutt.  It is the doctrine, and cannon, on Ravelry. They believe.  They are a community of Believers.   They are not a comunity of  testers looking for the best way to make textiles.

In contrast, I knit such yarns at 120 and 140 stitches per inch^2 respectively.  I got there by testing, testing, testing! These fabrics are absolutely weatherproof, but Gansey Nation/ Ravelry consider these impossible fabrics.   Impossible - because they never bothered to learn to use a knitting sheath. I agree, using circular needles, such fabrics are not practical to knit.  Gansey Nation considers the very concept of  a weatherproof gansey to be a myth.   This is well accepted at Ravelry.  I see it as simply a failure to learn the required knitting technique. Ravelry is not not a comunity of  testers looking for the best way to make textiles. Rather it is a community of Believers that  proselytize. 

However, if they had some intellectual curiosity, they would have done some testing.  Testing would have told them that the fast way to knit a weatherproof seaman's sweater is to use MacAusland 3-ply (or similar) yarns  ( http://www.macauslandswoollenmills.com/), and long 3 mm DPNs with a knitting sheath. HELL YES!, I knit  weatherproof seaman's sweaters from Patons Classic Wool Yarn!!  At 108 stitches per inch^2 it is as much knitting effort as knitting worsted 5-ply, and it is not as durable, so I would rather put the effort into more durable objects knit from worsted 5-ply.  Still, sometimes I need to prove the concept.

Paton Classic Wool

knit at 9 spi by 12 rpi

Weatherproof! (when oiled)

  And skin soft.

This is a nice fabric to live in when it is cold!.

(No, it cannot be knit with circular needles.) 

The truth is that it is more difficult to knit a weatherproof object from high-twist, worsted spun, 5-ply than from a woolen yarn. Woolen yarn can be a 40 hour path to a seaman's sweater that is weatherproof! It is a lot of work, but it is fast. By the modern knitting terminology, it is not a "gansey" but it is a seaman's sweater that is functional, very functional.  Ravelry has forgotten about functional!   Such a sweater at its best, will not be as warm (for it's weight) or as durable as one knit from high twist worsted yarn.  In the long run (years), a series of the more difficult to knit worsted sweaters takes less wool and less total knitting time than a series of  woolen spun sweaters. It was the dual virtues of great warmth from light weight and durability that made the British seaman's sweater, the Masterpiece of Hand Knitting.

I have never gotten good advice on Ravelry on how to knit really functional objects.  I have never seen anyone else post really good advice on how to knit warm objects.  The standard Ravelry advice is to knit loosely to produce "air space" as an insulator.  Nobody seems to like it when I point out that the right sized air space for warmth is 40 microns - twice the thickness of a Merino staple.  The other side of that 40 micron air space is that the fabric is very durable, by being firmly knit, and not bulky considering its great warmth. Great warmth with minimum bulk and weight is a great attribute in a textile for some uses.

I have never seen good advice on Ravelry on knitting durable objects - notably socks. My 3 principles are; 1) knit to fit (e.g., no stress points), 2) knit firmly, and 3) use worsted spun wool yarns with many fine plies. These points work, but they do not generate many "agree"s on Ravelry, quite the opposite

Many of the "experts" on Ravelry have or had close ties to the modern commercial yarn industry, e.g., they own or work for LYS.  They recommend what is commercially available.  LYS sell what is popular - not what produces great fabrics.  Yarns that produce great fabrics tend to have higher production costs and hence higher price points.  Go down to the designer botiques at a Needless Markup Department Store, and see which of the great fashion designers are using yarns like the yarns you can get at your local yarn store. Last dozen times I looked - zero.  Even the yarns used to make the knit goods at Textures in Santa Monica are not available at LYS.  I would not depend on Ravelry for a understanding of the universe of yarn. When was the last time you saw the 6-strand worsted that I like in the Ravelry database?  When was the last time you saw a 6-strand all wool, 1,680 ypp sock yarn (as above) in the  Ravelry database ? 

 Ravelry is a terrible place to be a beginning spinner or knitter because it tends to hide the paths to excellent textiles. Ravelry is dominated by "pretty textiles". However, "pretty" changes with fashion. Good textiles are both attractive and functional.  Excellent textiles, are very functional, very durable, very attractive, and have a timeless style and beauty that is immune to fashion.  I like excellent textiles. 

US3 Needles

1. Back in the summer of 2013, patknitter was saying that she could replicate my fabrics, using US3 needles. On July 28, 2013, I posted that I would buy her a case of brandy if she could actually do that. see http://gansey.blogspot.com/2013/07/a-case-of-brandy.html
2. 
   
3. At that point, I had been working on how to hand-knit warmer fabrics for 14 years.  I understood all of the approaches.  I knew what needles produced which fabrics, and which fabrics could be produced with what needles.  I had done my homework.  I had knit 50 gallon  drums full of gauge swatches, most of which are still in my office.
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5. She never sent me proof of meeting the challange, and more recently she has been claiming  on Ravelry that she did meet the challange, but that I did not pay off. This was, and is deceitful, underhanded, and libel. The moderators of Ravelry: Guernseys - Ganseys - Knit Frocks group  have allowed this. 
6. 
   
7. Her solution was to use a thinner yarn.  The thinner yarn made it a different fabric. The different yarn construction that she used was another degree of difference. There is simply no way that the fabric which she claims is the same as the pictured  fabric, is similar to the fabric pictured in the case of brandy post, and again below. Her claim has no merit.
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9. Moreover, attempting to knit the defined yarn on US3 needles at 5.5 spi produces a stiff board like fabric that is unlike the fabric pictured.  The pictured fabric has decent hand and drape. Been there, done that, enough to know what works, and what does not work.  patknitter is simply ignorant of how to knit either fine or dense fabrics of high quality and good wearability.
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11. 
12. 6-strand, cabled (wool sock yarn) knit (by me) at 8 spi on US3 needles
13. This time the yarn grist is 1680 ypp rather than 
14. the 850 ypp of the challange fabric.
15. ~8 spi and 10 rpi
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19. 
20.  challange fabric knit from brandy post
21. 6-strand cabled 850 ypp wool yarn
22. ~ 6 spi and 11 rpi
23. yarn grist matters in knitting
24. 
    
25. Of course, I knew that finer yarns could be knit at 6 spi (or 8 spi) on US3 needles.  That is why I was careful to say the challange was to replicate the fabric, and not the stitches per inch, as she claims. The fabric of the challange cannot be knit on US3 needles, even when the yarn is stretched to its breaking point. That is determined by the physics of wool.
26. 
    
27. A case of good brandy is thousands of dollars. I did not underestimate patknitter. I expected the required effort to be more than the tasks of Hercules - more like the labor of  Sisyphus.  However, with the tide of group sentiment running against me, I relented and offered to send patknitter enough of the right yarn to make her demonstration, in case her stash was not up to the task. However, I do feel that anyone that brags about being a "gansey knitter" should have a variety of multi-ply and multi-strand cabled yarns on hand.  In fact, the bully gansey knitter should have gauge swatches of such yarns ready at hand - all labeled with the type of  yarn and the needles used.
28. 
    
29. It is shameful that Ravelry: Guernseys - Ganseys - Knit Frocks group (http://www.ravelry.com/groups/guernseys-ganseys-knit-frocks---fishermens-sweaters)
30. has supported her wrongful claims and dishonesty.
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32. This kind of thing is why I have basically stopped using Ravelry.
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34. I find that groups like  Guernseys - Ganseys - Knit Frocks group  are full of misinformation like patknitter's claim that fine, dense fabrics can be knit on US3 needles by just knitting tighter, and keeping the yarn at a higher tension. In the past, on this blog, I have mentioned other Ravelry groups commonly posting misinformation,  but sometimes I took that as misdirection to preserve a competitive advantage. Now, I have to say that misinformation on Ravelry is simply endemic. Lies that I heard as I began knitting run rife.  It took me years to track down or discover better approaches. 
35. 
    
36. Now, the lies get group approval and better technical approaches get group disapproval.  These days textile craftsmanship on Ravelry is discouraged in favor of mediocrity.  Easy is prefered to excellent. Fast is prefered to durable. Everything is focused on "hobby grade". There is no disciplined pursuit of excellence.
37. 
    
38. Problems with patknitter's assertions include;
39. First, wool yarn is simply not that elastic. A stitch formed by wrapping yarn around a 3.25 mm needle will always be larger than a stitch formed by wrapping yarn around 2.4 mm needle.  The yarn will break before the 7.5 mm of yarn measured for a stitch by a 2.4 mm needle, can be stretched to the 10.2 mm required to go around a 3.25 mm needle.
40. 
    
41. Second, fabric knit with tightly held yarn tends to be stiff, board like, and have poor hand and drape. Fabric knit to the same spi/rpi by using smaller needles, with less yarn tension tends to have better hand and drape.  Finer needles tend to produce fabrics that are more comfortable to wear.  That  is because the yarn loosely knit on the finer needles is not under tension, so the fabric is relaxed and feels more pleasant.
42. 
    
43. The bottom line is that the way to knit fine fabrics (Arans, Guernseys and Ganseys included) is to use the correct sized needles and  knit with just enough tension in the yarn to ensure that wrapping the yarn around the needle produces a uniform stitch.
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45. This is an important issue, both as a matter of  quality of knitting and the ergonomics of knitting.  However, patknitter gets many "agree"s and "love"s for her assertions that reduce the quality of knitting, and increase the chance of injury while knitting. She is a populist leader, and a bully.  She is not a proponet of excellence in knitting.  In the early days of Ravelry, there were many proponents of excellence on Ravelry. I do not see them posting on Ravelry any more.  I  suspect that like me, they have gotten tired of the tone of many groups on Ravelry.  A tone that emphasizes personality over technical merit.
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47. Knitters that accept what patknitter says as true cannot become excellent knitters. I do not care how well any particular knitter can knit, but I am pointing out that patknitter and others like her form a significant social barrier to technical excellence in textiles.  I think expert knitters and spinners should make a point of removing technical and social barriers to better knitting.  
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49. I am not interested in environments where mediocrity is king.  I do not participate in  groups that tolerate deceit. I do not like people that engage in libel.
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Competence

I was a pretty good knitter, then I started spinning because I wanted better yarn for the knitting that I was doing.  However, the time I spent spinning took away from the time I spent knitting, and the quality of my knitting has declined.  I would say that to remain a competent knitter one needs to spend 30 hours per week knitting at a very high level.  Likewise, I would say that to remain a competent spinner, one needs to spend at least 30 hours per week spinning at a very high level.

Thus, if one wants to spin better yarn for better knitting, one must invest 60 hours per week in textile work.  That does not leave much time for weaving or -- teaching.

Professional spinners and knitters were/are very competent because they were able to turn every commission, every job into an opportunity to hone and refine their skills.  Pros practice everyday, all day.  Amateurs have other things to do, and cannot spend as much time honing and refining their skills.

Teaching has its own work, that distracts from high-end craft work.  Even master's classes require prep work that distracts from high end practice. Teaching basic skills takes more time out of practice.  A teacher that maintains a full teaching schedule for an extended period of time is not going to have to have retained the same level of technical skills as a talented professional working at their craft full time.

And, if you are on Ravelry, you are not practicing.  If somebody spins and knits and has a lot of posts on Ravelry, we know they are not highly competent knitters or spinners.

That said, maximum productivity in human muscles only lasts about 6 hours, but can be stretched to about 8.  Human productivity starts to decline after 8 hours of work.  You really cannot do your best work for more than about 8 hours per day. And muscles need rest.  You cannot do your best work, working more than about 40 hours per week. So, in fact one could do 8 hours of knitting and 4 hours of Ravelry on a daily basis.

I have to admit  to spending a lot of time on Ravelry as I started knitting and again when I started spinning.  Each time, I picked up a lot of conventional wisdom suited to hobby quality production. To move on to better quality production, I had to abandon that conventional wisdom,  and adopt tools  and skills not discussed on Ravelry.  Today, I see this attitude as one of the great impediments of my moving to better tools and the skills needed to use those tools.

Mention of the other tools and other skills on Ravelry invoked huge amounts of antagonism from groups of knitters and spinners on Ravelry. I do not know if they were a majority or a very vocal minority.  I do not care, they were unpleasant towards me. The knitting and spinning community should be more tolerant of  alternative approaches to knitting and spinning.  I find the  knitting and spinning community to be bigoted against the tools used by professional textile workers for hundreds of years.

I point down another path.  I do  not tell anyone that they must follow that path, I only say that the path exists.  From their reaction, one would have thought that I scream heresy from the steps of the cathedral, everyday 24/7.  I see my position as rather like telling a group of Latin scholars, that studying Greek or Hebrew also has its use. And yes, I do see scholars that can work in Latin or Greek or Hebrew as more advanced than scholars that work only in Latin.  On the other hand it is better to do good work in Latin then poor work in Latin AND Greek. I did not invent the Greek, I only remind folks that it exists.

Real Power

Some of the "mods" over on Ravelry are drunk with power.

No, these days, real power is the ability to move the price of oil. And,  the folks with that power do not get drunk.

Perhaps the truth is that the mods at "Revelry" got drunk and just thought they had power. There truth is: that their idea of a power trip is going out to piss in the snow.  I hope they remember to take their keys so they do not get locked out.

I do not know why there is not a series of revolts over at Revelry, where groups replace mods who fail to live up to the Ravelry community standards.  As always, people get the "government" that they deserve.

The best spinners and knitters spend their time knitting and spinning,  rather than just talking about it.  What is left are beginners, and well, folks that would rather read and talk about knitting and spinning than actually spin and knit.  I am still listed as a mod in some groups, and I check in every month or so to answer questions.  It is hand spinning and hand knitting - nothing is time critical, and I would rather spin and  knit than run a group. I see this kind of thing rather often in Ravelry groups started by spinners and knitters that I respect. If we were more obsessed with running our groups, then we would know much less about knitting and spinning.  Groups run by mods that I do not respect tend to light-up in seconds after I leave a post.  I do not think these people even know the price of oil.